How to Grow Tobacco

How to grow and process tobacco at home for personal use. This is a non-commercial hobby website.
Tobacco Picture Gallery Click Here
It is currently Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:36 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:10 pm
Posts: 6
firstly I'm new to the growing scene, and I'm enjoying the website. Good to see a few Brits involved. that said, I'm slightly confused by the storing articles.

I've been pipe smoking for some 30 years, and have some tobaccos nearly as old. When I store/age it, its stored in sealed airtight containers to encourage anaerobic bacteria and to maintain moisture content. Even my cigars are stored in airtight boxes with beads controlling humidity.

Here reading a few threads its a case of leaving it exposed to the air it seems.

Why the difference?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:22 am
Posts: 166
Location: Warwickshire, Midlands
pyrotech wrote:
firstly I'm new to the growing scene, and I'm enjoying the website. Good to see a few Brits involved. that said, I'm slightly confused by the storing articles.

I've been pipe smoking for some 30 years, and have some tobaccos nearly as old. When I store/age it, its stored in sealed airtight containers to encourage anaerobic bacteria and to maintain moisture content. Even my cigars are stored in airtight boxes with beads controlling humidity.

Here reading a few threads its a case of leaving it exposed to the air it seems.

Why the difference?

Don't quote me on this but I believe the reasoning is as follows.

By leaving it in the air the humidity is much lower. As the chlorophyll breaks down forming ammonia, it evaporates and as a result, the chances of mould forming are much lower. Tobacco left to age is very dry and when being prepared to smoke; it is brought back to case with distilled water. Storing it in air tight containers is how you keep it when it is ready to smoke but, it won't age in them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:03 am
Posts: 2704
pyrotech

Hello from the other side of the pond .

While I wouldn't encourage others to do the same I'll store mine like you moist and in air tight conditions . But I've stored tobacco leaf before and feel confident I can manage the leaf in a way not to harm it with mold or the likes .

It will require a little time spent checking things , monitering the situation but I think it will age better moist than bone dry . I admit I know nothing about this other than keeping bulk tobacco over for sale the following year . Never stored any trying to age it into a better product for personal use .

But I think it would need to be somewhat moist . Plus like you mentioned I think it would need sealed in a container to maintain that percent moisture . Plus I feel it should be permitted to breath on occasion but then back into the container.

Thats my 2 cents and just how I'll be doing mine .

EDIT

Man have I changed my mind on this one . Id been storing in containers or even plasdtic bags . I did this to maintain the moisture untill we smoked it. Just been short term storage so far . I really felt this was the best way for storing to maintain the moisture .

I reciently changed my mind on this . Sure it keeps good and I haven't had a single problem to date . Ours gets smoked quite fast but some been stored 40 mabye 50 days . However it just smells 10 times better to me if left out where it can breath . It doesn't stink if stored in containers but it doesn't smell good either . Leaving some out in a spare bed room to store it has a wonderful tobacco smell to it the container stored stuff does not .

I've desided to hang mine back on sticks tied in hands but where air can always circulate around and through the tobacco . I'll come up with something else to maintain the moisture I'd like .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:40 am
Posts: 120
Location: Seattle
I've been storing mine from last year's crop under pressure - it's wet but there's very little air. When I want to smoke some I take a bit out and let it breathe on a platter for a few days. As it dries the smell becomes wonderful after about a day or so.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:49 pm
Posts: 6
Cigars have been aged for decades by keeping the humidity at 60-70 percent and the temperature at 60-70 degrees. I think the norm, even with a small humidor, is to allow some air flow from time to time. I am not an expert at all, but one probably would not go too wrong within these parameters.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:16 pm
Posts: 1572
Location: West Central Fl.
hi don't know if right or wrong but it works for us . after ours color cured we put it in kiln at temps of 115º to 120º and with humidity as high as 70% after couple of weeks it smelt good . so we changed the heater to an old reptile incubater thing I found cleaning a rental house once. it has small heater and thermostat built in so set a pan of water on it turn it on to about 100º and humidity falls to about 50%. leave the small fan running and check it every couple days. it always has sweet smell and is just a little on dry side will not crumble so can pick up some put in wally bag and mist little lets set over night and ready to shread in morning. it stays almost at case but needs just a little mositure to smoke good . heater is 40 watts so we just leave it run altime. lee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:03 am
Posts: 2704
Lee

Just so long as it works good for the person doing it I'm not so sure they is a right or wrong way . If it works for you and your wife likes it what can be to bad wrong with that . You might eventually learn a better way or maybe even just an easier way that you prefer but thats true with anything .

btw

The way you describe your leafs feeling dry but thay dont crumble is sounding about as perfect as you can get for good storage with added aging effects . Brittle dry and the aging process stops or slows down to nothing about it . It sounds to me like what your doing should be fine and even age well also .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:16 pm
Posts: 1572
Location: West Central Fl.
Hi all just an update
We put some store bought pipe tobacco in paper bags and some in plastic sealed bags. left in kiln at 50% humidity and temps at 90/ 100º. after 1 month the plastic bagged was slightly better. The paper bagged was a lot better. we tried this as a speed up aging. Now this was shreaded tobacco from store. We also tried some home grown from last year. it was color cured and kiln dried 120º 70 % humidity for 6 weeks. then left in kiln at lower temps and lower humidity. It has been in there for better than 6 months and it is great. We believe that the kiln at lower temps and low humidity is ideal for storeing the tobacco.no mold no bugs no problems in 6 months.
I do wonder about storing shreaded tobacco as compaired to whole leaf. Will they age the same? I would like to store my tobacco shreaded, and near ready to smoke in kiln low heat. solves my storage space problem and easy to check on. I have a second kiln (refig) using as storage space for some tools now. Also a third one neighbor brought over to save dumping fees. shreaded would make more space yet , does amount in a box/bag slow or speed up aging? Lee kiln does have fan running 24/7


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:13 am
Posts: 2056
Hi --

You said - "then left in kiln at lower temps and lower humidity. It has been in there for better than 6 months and it is great. We believe that the kiln at lower temps and low humidity is ideal for storeing the tobacco"

I think you've invented the humidor! LOL! Storing tobacco at 70% RH and 70F is supposed to be the ideal.

After some thought, and you aren't the first one to ask this question, I can't see why tobacco wouldn't age just as well shredded as it does in whole leaf.

One thing puzzles me however. You say it takes up less room shredded, but I sure don't see how that could be. The leaf can't take up any less space than it has already. You can press the leaves together and package them tightly for long-term storage and I'd think that would take up less room than shreds which have many air spaces between the cut leaf surfaces. From what I've read, long term storage of tobacco in a nearly airless environment is good for aging it. Anaerobic fermentation works fine after initial aerobic fermentation and is used by many cigar makers.

Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:16 pm
Posts: 1572
Location: West Central Fl.
Hi
Bob thanks for repy but i believe my 90/100º is a little higher than regular humidor. and the 50 % humidity is dryier.
I guess I should have just put some in a box and then judge differance between them . but it is all in kiln.
The shreaded takes alot less room=no big center ribs or stems. and lays out smoother. That is one of reasons I wondered how it aged as compared to whole leaf. my whole leaf is spead out over shelves with lots of air spaces around it . the shreaded is in bags so little air moving around inside of bags . I did leave tops open on bags. they are the old sandwich bags , brown and I filled them about 1/3 full have about 1/4 # in a bag.
The whole leaf takes about 10 sq. ft of shelve space and is about 6 # the bagged takes 2 sq ft. and is 3 # =12 bags I didn;t want to fill to full and pack down. I wanted it loose for air flow.
Question then is will it age better in bags or loose leaf? Also if long term aging is in airless environment , will this get better long term or will it get to point that it starts to go stale or loose its flavor? We do know that the store bought pipe was really harsh and after a month in paper bags in kiln she can smoke it and not as harsh.
we were wondering if it aged faster in small pieces -shreaded as compared to whole leaf . but probably same as most of amonia left with the ferminting 6 weeks higher temps. . ok thanks for imput Bob . I enjoy your imputs Lee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:13 am
Posts: 2056
Hi --

lee, once you've fermented the whole leaf almost completely and it's ready for long term storage, you can pack it as tightly as you want for long term storage at 70F/70% RH or dryer and the leaf will only improve with age despite no air circulation. For that matter, you can pack the leaf as tightly as you want after it's completely dried without fermenting and it will continue to improve over time. Cigar makers pack tobacco into casks/kegs very tightly and store for years that way to improve the leaf. I know people who have packed whole leaf tobacco into quart and gallon jars and stored it for years and reported it only got better. The key is not too much moisture content in storage, or you risk molding. Also, there's a possibility of beetles eating it. Some use nitrogen to force out the air before sealing it up.

Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:16 pm
Posts: 1572
Location: West Central Fl.
Hi again
I started reading the first post over. Then looked at title and started over again. I am under the thoughts that what I am doing with temps at 90/ 100º and low humiditys at around 50% and air moveing , fan on constantly is ageing. As compared to stored ready to smoke tobacco in a sealed air tite container.
I posted some where that I put a bag of store bought pipe tobacco in some paper bags and some plastic bags and put into the kiln at the lower temps and lower humidity. The paper bags have improved greatly, most of harsh tatste and awful smell has gone. the plastic bags may have changed some but very little , smell and taste is still bad. As the tobacco never dries out , and the air circulates and temps stay fairly even and higher than normal air temps I came to conclusion that it must still be ageing.
With the low humidity mold has not been a problem. I think the air movement and slight ventalation has helped. When we open kiln to get some more to shread or smoke we try a little of each kind. We are also impressed that the aroma just gets better and better. I may have to start smoking again .
I think the whole secret is getting it color curred . Then depending on what method you use, to age it . Not just store it. I think to age it needs some moisture not bone dry.
As most of you realise there is many ways to age/ferment it. Just depends on your preferrance or means. I may try some other methods after I get enough that is ready to smoke to last through a years growing cycle.
Needed to add that it is possible that dried tobacco . Tobacco that was bone dry,may be able to change smell and taste after being brought back to case. The store tobacco is a unknown in that. I did not cure it or process it so it is possible it dried out. Also the way it is bagged now would lead one to belive that it is ageing again. Lee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:03 am
Posts: 2704
Lee

Around here I have to seal the baccy in something or it will draw up so much moisture it would mold or rot . Last year I caught the baccy in semi heavy case ( wet but not wet enough to ruin ) and it stored fine for a year with no mold .

However other than a bag or two ( that I think dried out some ) none of it really had a tobacco smell . It tasted good and smoked good but no real tobacco smell .

I kept thinking that once the junk was gone it would smell like tobacco but it never did take on a real good tobacco smell . From experimenting and trying things differently this year ( dryer ) all my baccy now has a good tobacco smell .

Even that small dab I sent you was too moist to smell like tobacco good . Sure it will keep but no great baccy smell . Thinking about long term storage I knew I needed it dryer this year so I started storing very dry .

Not so dry that it crumbled but just barley moist enough not to crumble . The first thing I noticed was that even a bag that was sealed for a month smelled like tobacco when I opened it . Like you I think to age properly that it needs some moisture .

However I'm starting to think it needs very little moisture . Just enough so it can be pressed without crumbling is enough ( I think anyhow )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:13 am
Posts: 2056
Hi --

Lonnie, I've had the exact same experience. I think it's better that the tobacco dry out in storage and require remoisturizing occasionally than to keep it too wet. Even if no mold grows, it doesn't seem to fermet properly in long term storage when too wet. It should be just pliable I think.

Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Storing v Aging
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:40 am
Posts: 120
Location: Seattle
Fermentation occurs both aerobically (with air) and anaerobically (without air). Tobacco sealed in air-tight containers [i]will[/i] continue to age and will not mold if properly stored.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group