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 Post subject: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: South Australia
Hi guys this is my first grow season and i have a tonne of easter island nicotiana rusticas growing i have found it hard to find info in the net to best harvest cure rustica let alone info is fermenting them worth doing what are peoples best methods to harvest and cure their various rusticas cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:18 pm
Posts: 48
Very good question indeed; got myself a couple leaves I'd love to smoke but dunno how to process :-x; considering my (alright) results I've got from fermenting my tobacco described here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6902 , I think I'll give them a shot for a couple of days in a mason jar wrapped tightly and see how that works, I'm just very afraid they'll lose loads of nicotine.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: South Australia
Let me know how you go i dont want to lose the nicotine content as im hoping using rustica as part of my blends will help me cut down the amount i smoke lately i swear here in australia the tobacco i buy is lower in nicotine than it used to be i bought a expensive pouch of organic tobacco called manitou and noticed i smoked much less and my nicotine cravings were hit but tobacco here is too expensive let alone nice tobacco like manitou id need to be rich to afford to smoke which is why im growing my own


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:18 pm
Posts: 48
Shall keep you posted; guess the trick is to keep it short; from what I've heard over in a German forum, cigarette tobacco is usually fermented for a week max. There is currently only cigar tobacco in the box, which already got quite well after three days, so I'll give some of them a shot after three days and see whether I'll still be on my feet^^

Found this quote in a thread there concerning rustica:

"Bei Rustica geht alles. Damit er einigermaßen rauchbar bleibt, sollte er fermentiert werden: Der sehr hohe Nikotingehalt wird auf etwa die Hälfte reduziert und der Tabak bekommt sein typisches Veilchenaroma, weshalb er auch Veilchentabak genannt wird. -- Gruss mb"

"Everything goes with rustica. To have it sort of smokeable, it should be fermented: The very high content of nicotine will be reduced to about half and the tobacco gets its typical violet flavour, which is why it's also called "violet tobacco" [at least around here]."


I really pity you and all Australians for this nanny state of yours. Good thing you got your seeds! Perhaps, to keep nicotine high, just abstain from fermenting it and keep it like that, grind it up and add it; a little of that stuff unfermented shouldn't affect flavour all that badly and give the needed kick :P


EDIT:

Apparently, flue curing should keep nicotine levels satisfyingly high; Vietnamese Thuốc Lào, known for it's incredible hit, is flue-cured in an interesting fashion which I reckon may be reproduced at home in some way; just make sure your neighbours aren't anywhere near^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gByKkSM ... e=youtu.be

Found this in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3230&p=52084&hilit=vietnamese#p52084


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: South Australia
I will check those links out i was thinking of colour curing my rusticas then hang them in hands till dry im building a kiln for my other tobacco i got some virginia gold coming some tn90 and some havana for cigars at the moment i have alleged virginia bright leaf lizardtail orinonco and some turkish and maryland well i hope they are what they are the guy that i bought them off was dodgy as hell took him forever to ship from interstate he promised me a cigar strain but that never came i also have some kind of mystery nicotiana tobaccum i bought off ebay ill see what it is on here when bigger.... i like the idea of putting rustica in a kiln to remove the harshness people talk of but even kilning/growing tobacco is all new to me but i have made it a new hobby as paying $210 every 2 weeks for my tobacco is killing my finances the government here doesmt give a damm how much pressure they put on people every 6 months tobacco goes up $3 the gov justify it as its covering the burden to the health care system what a joke when smoking related cancers are only 6% of all cancers out there sorry for the long winded text but its good to know others know how us aussies feel


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:18 pm
Posts: 48
Bad news, had a quick episode of frost and thawing, which means that about 70% of my harvest just vanished due to mould, including all rustica. You're on your own, mate, sorry ._.

My approach worked fine btw., I'd say ferment them in a glass for 3 days to take off harshness and you ought to be fine. Mould is a motherfucking pain in the arse, I swear, second time now I've lost a considerable portion of my harvest to that little bitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:18 pm
Posts: 48
Another Update:

Talked to someone who's dealt with rustica before, and it appears in order to preserve the nicotine, flue curing is your best shot. Another method which could be realised with some effort is building a small stone "hut", with a tent-shaped oven in the middle and the above space filled with rods holding the leaves. According to him, they're then done in two hours, and dry as hell. If you're staying where you are for long and don't have neighbours ratting out on you, this may be something to check out; considering the Australian climate, though, I dunno how getting them humid again will work out.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:41 pm
Posts: 874
Location: NE Washington
Been reading this thread and I am a little confused as to what you guys are talking about in some of it. Honestly, no offense is intended, but I think you may a little confused on terminology and getting some poor advice on a few things.

First off, I have grown 15 or more strains of Rustica. They are all very similar in most respects. Some get bigger leaf than others, but none get to the size of Tobaccums. Some have very short growing seasons of 35 days, but most are medium season to ripen at around 60 days. All are very hardy. All of them are very prolific seed producers and have a tendency to produce lots of branches (suckers). They are somewhat different from the suckers on N. Tobaccum strains. I find that pruning suckers on Rustica is of little advantage, if any. It lust makes them angry and they try to grow 3 times more.

Rustica is somewhat difficult to cure. Curing, aka color curing, is basically getting the green out. When leaf is picked it is still alive when you hang it up. You want it to dry slow enough that it doesn't flash dry green, so the chlorophyl in the leaf gets used up as it dies. Leaf dried green will have a taste like hay. As the leaf slowly dies and the green fades, it will change colors. Flu cured strains turn yellow or gold and retain the color if properly flu cured. Flu curing requires a "flu" which can be held at a very narrow range of temps that vary throughout the process. Most other strains are air cured, and many cure from green right to brown with no yellow stage.

Rustica can be air cured like any tobacco can. I air cure all my tobaccos. Flu cured strains all air cure well too. But without the high temps used at the end of the flu curing process, the bright color isn't locked in by killing certain enzymes present in the leaf. It will often end up drying a very bright yellow, but will fade to a golden brown as it ages. Rustica is difficult to cure because it has a tendency to end up a rather dingy greenish brown no matter how you cure and dry. It's just it's nature. But unlike most Tobaccum strains that still have green leaf after drying, Rustica will still smoke great! It is very mild to smoke and quite nice after it had aged 3-4 months. The nicotine content stays very stable and is usually in the 6-7 % range. It can be as high as 9%. If you have a low tolerance for nicotine, it might be a bit much for you. I have no problems smoking it straight.

Once tobacco has cured (all the green has faded out and the leaf is yellow or brown) no matter what strain it is, the next step is to dry it completely until the main stem snaps like a twig. You can do this as fast as you want and as fast as possible. Green tobacco can not mold because it is still alive. Cured tobacco that is yellow or brown and still has moisture in it can mold. The leaf is now dead and molds can attack very quickly and to turn all your hard work into compost. So as soon as it has finished curing, dry it! And dry it until the main stem is bone dry!

Once it is dried thoroughly, you can bring it back into case so it can be handled without breaking and pack it into cardboard boxes to age. Cardboard works great because it still lets it breath a little. Or you can do what I do if you have the space and just let it hang where you died it and age it there. All tobacco needs to age, no matter what variety it is. There are a few tobaccos that need only 3-4 months aging to be decent to smoke while others need 6 months to a year. Freshly cured and dried tobacco is usually very harsh and nasty to smoke. The leaf contains many compounds (mainly nitrates) that naturally break down into the atmosphere over time. They are largely converted to ammonia which dissipates into the air as a gas leaving behind the tobaccos true flavors and aromas.

Kiling: Essentially, there are two kinds of kilns. One is used for color curing and drying as I described a little above. They need to be very air tight with good even air circulation and be able to run through a range of temps from 95f with 90% humidity to 165f and down to 10% humidity, and on a fairly precisely time scale. A kiln of this type will take fresh leaf from the field and finish curing and drying it in 10-14 days. You can build one. Lots of people have, but it takes some effort and planning.

Most of the time when folks here talk about kilning, they are talking about the second type where cured and dried tobacco is "aged" at an accelerated rate. The tobacco is placed in an enviromet where the temp is kept at approximately 125f and 70% humidity for 3-4 weeks. All chemistry happens faster at warmer temps than cold. And humidity helps speed some chemistry along too. This is what happens with tobacco and causes the nitrates in the leaf to break down at a much faster rate, thus speeding up the aging process. Kilning also helps bring out the flavors and aromas, and improves the smoking qualities of many tobaccos, especially in cigar varieties. This kind of kiln is very easy to build and maintain. Basically, all you need is an old dead refrigerator for your kiln cabinet, an old crock pot for your heat and moisture source, and an electric water heater thermostat to control it. Search "crock pot kiln" and I'm sure you'll find threads on it here.

There is another trick some of us like to call dash board kilning, or the poor mans kiln. Put cured and dried tobacco that has been brought back into medium case into a gallon zip lock bag and seal it up. You want the leaf supple enough to handle easily, but not wet. Throw it on the dash or in the seat of a car parked in the sun on a warm day. Let it sit for a couple days, then open it up for 1/2 hour to breath. Seal it back up and wait a couple more days. Let breath, seal, repeat. After about a week you will open the bag and start smelling a strong ammonia like smell. It will smell like a cat peed in it. lol But no worries, that smell goes away in the next week or so. After 3-4 weeks it will start smelling more and more like tobacco and should smoke pretty nice.

Fermenting is a term I hear tossed about a lot with seemingly all sorts of different meanings to different people. I'm really not sure what you are doing, or gaining, with you jar method. It also seems very tedious and time consuming if you have any volume of tobacco to deal with. As I understand fermenting, it is synonymous with sweating it. Or what the old time tobacco farmers in the Southeast US called "the June sweats". In that part of the world, the month of June brings very warm and humid days. Hanging leaf would be stripped from the plants and placed into large piles. Because of the heat and humidity, and moisture in the leaf, the pile would start to sweat, or "ferment" in the pile as the pile built up heat due to the same process that builds heat in a compost pile. Every few days the piles are taken apart, let breath a little and then restacked. Leaf from the middle is stacked at the ends and end leaf rotates into the middle. This keeps it all from becoming a compost pile of moldy leaf. Sweating, fermenting, or what ever you want to call the process, the end result is somewhat similar to kiling it.

I have used a lot of generalities in my descriptions above. I don't claim to be "the" authority on any of this and I'm sure there are others lurking here who can add to, correct, or clarify some of my comments in a better manner. I hope they will.

I'll stop here before this becomes a novella. Hope it helped some.

Cheers,
Sky


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: South Australia
Firstly to the bloke who lost his rustica crop to frost i feel your pain mate after all the effort that goes from seed thru growing would make any man ropeable ive had a lot pf trial and error to grow my seeds into seedlings ready to plant now mine are doing well except not quite a foot tall im beginning to see flowers form but i had lost a lot of seedlings to damping off and also a lot to sudden heatwaves not being able to water in time summer is starting here in aus and we got 40 degree centigrade days coming up and its only the beginning of summer.
I have a new batch of rustica seedlings to put in the garden now finally i learnt how to treat tobacco babies.

Hey there skychaser firstly thank you for putting me in touch with that seed vendor i successfully got my order i am am very impressed i got some virginia gold, some havana i forget the number off the top of my head amd some tn90 plus i got some papaver somniferum seeds of a ornamental variety ive been wanting for ages so cheers mate for your help there. Alsp thank you for taking your time to explain curing aging fermenting etc as being new to growing tobacco im now able to understand the differemces im familiar with enzyamic processes as i brew my own beer and those processes you described reminded me much of how yeast convert sugar into ethanol and c02 thanks again for your help.

I noticed picking the suckers off has caused them to come back with a vengence and lately they are getting really sticky not sure what that means but the plants are nice and healthy i gather the plant is producing more sugars or something


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:41 pm
Posts: 874
Location: NE Washington
Whiteox wrote:

I noticed picking the suckers off has caused them to come back with a vengence ...


lol Yup. Rusticas do that. I don't bother with pruning the suckers. Wait until the seed pods start ripening. You'll love the smell. NOT! They smell like dog crap! lol It's natures way of keeping predators from eating them. The smell goes away when they are fully mature, and it's only the pods that stink and not the leaf.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing/fermenting nicotiana rustica
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: South Australia
My flowers are now starting to open the more that open the more it smells like dog crap/rotting meat i notice it gets worse whenever i water them..... just wondering i seen somewhere people from memory also smoke the flowers or seed capsules i cant remember where i seen that is that true and if so does it have a certain effect


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