How to Grow Tobacco

How to grow and process tobacco at home for personal use. This is a non-commercial hobby website.
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 Post subject: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:16 pm
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Location: NW England UK
Not sure if this is in the right section. Apologies if not.

I toasted some tobacco by accident, it was a bit too damp to shred in my food processor so I put it in pan on top of the wood burner to dry and forgot about it. Not sure how long it was on, but it's fantastic. Really dark brown and tastes wonderful.

Any other trips on toasting?


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:24 am 
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I've been experimenting with toasting. I believe it does improve the flavor. From the reading I've done, it seems that all cig tobacco is toasted.


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:31 am 
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Location: Northeastern Ohio
When I make a batch lately I've been toasting about 1/3 of the shredded tobacco then re-humidifying it and gently mixing it into the un-toasted portion. It adds a nice depth and complexity to the flavor.


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:57 am 
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I toast 10 minutes at 300 degrees after curing it mellows out a lot


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:23 pm 
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Hi --

I forgot to fill the humidifiers in the kiln for a few days (well, I think I was busy) and the bottom leaves toasted from the lights. The flavor was almost like slightly burnt sugar, so I looked up caramelization and it's supposed to start around 260F and absolutely changed the flavor of the tobacco. It was good! I think I have a post in here somewhere about caramelization of tobacco leaves.

I've also had much the same thing happen when I forgot to set the microwave on 10-20% and left it on full for several minutes. The plate got so hot I thought it might break (pyrex, but still) and the aroma was similar to the caramelized sugar smell. Smoked great too, once I got it remoisturized.

I'm a little concerned that the heat will destroy the nicotine. Someone (meaning me I guess) should research the temperature that nicotine starts breaking down in the leaf.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:50 am 
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Bob wrote:I'm a little concerned that the heat will destroy the nicotine. Someone (meaning me I guess) should research the temperature that nicotine starts breaking down in the leaf.

The boiling point for Nicotine is 477 degrees and the temp of the cherry is ~1000 degrees.So since the cherry is that hot the nice drug 8) is transfered to us.

I would think that has long has one toasts or whatever below the boiling point it should stay around.Not sure by no means though.


Mark in Wi


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:14 am 
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Hi --

taxedenough, that's good thinking!

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:40 am 
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Location: Seattle
I'm guessing that you folks have mostly been doing this with Virginia-types, not so much with Burleys?


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:04 am 
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Hi --

Yes, I've only done this with yellow-leaf tobacco. Silk Leaf and Virginia flue-cured. Although the sugar content of burley is much lower, it might carmelize as well.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:36 am 
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Location: Seattle
bob_kemp wrote:
Hi --

Yes, I've only done this with yellow-leaf tobacco. Silk Leaf and Virginia flue-cured. Although the sugar content of burley is much lower, it might carmelize as well.

Bob


I wonder if it would or if it would just scorch. When I've read about cellaring tobacco the consensus seems to be that Burleys will improve the least due to their low sugar content.


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:37 am 
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I've toasted two small batches of tobacco. The first for 10 minutes at 300F to me it seemed burnt. The second at 300F for 5 minutes and this too seemed a little burnt. You could smell the burnt sugar aroma. The next batch will be at lower temps hoping to avoid the burn. These were flue cured types that air dried.


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:47 am 
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Just found this on the web, company sells additives for tobacco but this was interesting:

For the improvement of the taste of the tobacco smoke in the sauces are added sweetening substances in the form of plain sugar, honey, glucose, fruit syrups, fruit pulps etc. For the combustion of their combustion are obtained substances with acid reaction, which neutralize the proteins, nicotine, and the chlorophyll as well as other active alkali stuffs. Also obtained through the combustion, which cause the unpleasant taste of the tobacco smoke. In this way they regulate the smoke pH amounts thus improving the taste qualities and having an indirect effect on the flavor.

What is more, during the combustion caramelization takes place and favorable compositions are formed, which have a positive effect on the flavor. Another important ingredient of the sauces, which contributes for the taste and flavor improvement of the tobacco products are the extracts from various plants and fruits - for example these are extracts from Sweet root (Gluzerizia glabra), extracts from plums, morello cherries, raisins etc. Extracts from different tobacco sorts are also used for the taste and flavor improvement of the tobacco products.

Usually it is the Burley tobacco sort that is sauced but it is possible for the whole tobacco mixture to be sauced. The amount of the sauce is 2 - 6% and depends on the relation between the tobacco sorts in the mixture and on the taste-flavor qualities of the desired type of cigarettes.

Burley tobacco sort is toasted. In some cigarettes blends its content is too big and after the tobacco toasting it is baked in temperature higher than that of the saucing. Special production line is required for the toasting of tobacco.

Of course this relates to commercial production but this website sells small samples to the public.

(edited to add the link) http://www.essentialoils.eu.com/tobacco_sauces.phtml


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:56 am 
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This from Wikipedia: As shown by the physical data, free base nicotine will burn at a temperature below its boiling point, and its vapors will combust at 308 K (35 °C; 95 °F) in air despite a low vapor pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Chemistry

So maybe, I'm toasting at too high a temp.


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am 
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More: Melting Point: -80 degrees Celsius
Boiling Point: 247 degrees Celsius
Flash Point: 95 degrees Celsius
Auto-Ignition Temperature: 240 degrees Celsius
Explosive Limits: 0.7 - 4 percent, by volume, in air
Vapor Pressure at Room Temperature: 0.006 kPa


The interesting thing to note here is that the auto-ignition temperature is lower than the boiling point. This means that, if you heat freebase nicotine in an air free container, it will detonate (explode) before it boils.

Nicotine is so unstable that it does not need to react chemically with anything to have an explosion occur. Its low vapor pressure tells us that nicotine does not evaporate on its own. If you heat it, nicotine will decompose chemically before it boils. Furthermore, in the presence of air, nicotine bursts into flames at a temperature just below the boiling point of water.

http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=Encyclopedia&op=content&tid=16


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 Post subject: Re: Toasting tobacco?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:13 am
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wydeboi wrote:
Just found this on the web, company sells additives for tobacco but this was interesting:

For the improvement of the taste of the tobacco smoke in the sauces are added sweetening substances


The English in this article sure is contorted. For me, that removes a certain amount of credibility.

Bob


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